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	<title>Comments on: A Thousand Deaths Is A Statistic</title>
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	<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/a-thousand-deaths-is-a-statistic/</link>
	<description>Resolution Magazine: Diverse commentary on video games. Previews, reviews, articles and more.</description>
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		<title>By: The Ever-Present Question &#124; The Nerd's Soup</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/a-thousand-deaths-is-a-statistic/#comment-19817</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ever-Present Question &#124; The Nerd's Soup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=379#comment-19817</guid>
		<description>[...] an interesting article here  about the treatment of death in games, but I&#8217;ve played enough online multiplayer to know [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an interesting article here  about the treatment of death in games, but I&#8217;ve played enough online multiplayer to know [...]</p>
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		<title>By: sigizz</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/a-thousand-deaths-is-a-statistic/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>sigizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 03:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=379#comment-77</guid>
		<description>I had great time playing this game. Try to beat me at &lt;a href=&quot;http://sigizz.mybrute.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sigizz.mybrute.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had great time playing this game. Try to beat me at <a href="http://sigizz.mybrute.com" rel="nofollow">sigizz.mybrute.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: quidmonkey</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/a-thousand-deaths-is-a-statistic/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>quidmonkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=379#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Fire Emblem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fire Emblem.</p>
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		<title>By: J.D. Richardson</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/a-thousand-deaths-is-a-statistic/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>J.D. Richardson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=379#comment-34</guid>
		<description>The only way people are going to start treating death more seriously in games is when you replace all the polygon and AI characters with real living entities, which will never happen and if it does then that is surely a sign of the apocalypse and its all game over anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only way people are going to start treating death more seriously in games is when you replace all the polygon and AI characters with real living entities, which will never happen and if it does then that is surely a sign of the apocalypse and its all game over anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: DrEru</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/a-thousand-deaths-is-a-statistic/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>DrEru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=379#comment-27</guid>
		<description>I think we have several different issues to deal with.  They appear, to me, to be

1) Why games trivialise death and violence (I assume we mostly agree they do)
2) Whether this is specfic to games or just a reflection of our culture
3) Whether this is a good or bad thing i.e. does it affect us negatively
4) Can we &#039;better&#039; present deat or replace it by a different game mechanic.

although I am sure we can each create our own subtly (or very) different versions.

At some point I will probably try to answer some of these, but at the moment I am not really sure where to start.  For instance, we are tossing terms like &#039;games&#039; and &#039;players&#039; around as if we share a common understanding and they are, as groups, homogeneous.
If we start by considering the games themselves, many include little or no violence at all (puzzle games, sports games, rhythm games etc.). Games attempt to invoke immersion in different ways, with multiplayer shooters shutting down higher brain function via sensory overload and MMOs emphasising the social.
Speaking of MMO&#039;s, people take (player) death very, very seriously there.  You can get murdered (in real) for that sort of thing.  Why?  Because people invest so much in the game that they really do care.
And when it comes to people we play games for different reasons.  Not everyone designs a (shooter) level to look like their school, complete with naked teachers and spends 8 hours a night chainsawing their genitals.

In short I believe there are unsettling games, just as there are unsettling films, but for the most part they reflect more about our culture than they contribute to it.  I do feel that intellectually insubstantial games are over-represented in the market, but it is a market.  If we keep buying crap, expect more to follow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we have several different issues to deal with.  They appear, to me, to be</p>
<p>1) Why games trivialise death and violence (I assume we mostly agree they do)<br />
2) Whether this is specfic to games or just a reflection of our culture<br />
3) Whether this is a good or bad thing i.e. does it affect us negatively<br />
4) Can we &#8216;better&#8217; present deat or replace it by a different game mechanic.</p>
<p>although I am sure we can each create our own subtly (or very) different versions.</p>
<p>At some point I will probably try to answer some of these, but at the moment I am not really sure where to start.  For instance, we are tossing terms like &#8216;games&#8217; and &#8216;players&#8217; around as if we share a common understanding and they are, as groups, homogeneous.<br />
If we start by considering the games themselves, many include little or no violence at all (puzzle games, sports games, rhythm games etc.). Games attempt to invoke immersion in different ways, with multiplayer shooters shutting down higher brain function via sensory overload and MMOs emphasising the social.<br />
Speaking of MMO&#8217;s, people take (player) death very, very seriously there.  You can get murdered (in real) for that sort of thing.  Why?  Because people invest so much in the game that they really do care.<br />
And when it comes to people we play games for different reasons.  Not everyone designs a (shooter) level to look like their school, complete with naked teachers and spends 8 hours a night chainsawing their genitals.</p>
<p>In short I believe there are unsettling games, just as there are unsettling films, but for the most part they reflect more about our culture than they contribute to it.  I do feel that intellectually insubstantial games are over-represented in the market, but it is a market.  If we keep buying crap, expect more to follow.</p>
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		<title>By: Ikkin</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/a-thousand-deaths-is-a-statistic/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Ikkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 08:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=379#comment-25</guid>
		<description>An action game with the gruesome death animations is an interesting example, I think.  Visually, it mimics death as a state of existence - but that&#039;s about as far as the similarity extends.  Game death is so different in all other ways that it&#039;s not really clear to me whether it would be best understood as a shallow depiction of death or just not dealing with actual death at all.

Part of the disconnect is the fact that a game model, on its own, has little to no emotional value.  Making the player care about it is something that requires the narrative to show him why he should care - and most games don&#039;t consider it worth it to do that for enemies.  Even in the cases where they do try, it&#039;s simply not possible to do that for every enemy and NPC in a game with a medium or large scope due to lack of resources.  Finding a way to gain empathy procedurally through gameplay mechanics would help solve the resource problem, but a system of reward and punishment almost seems to be the antithesis of emotional engagement.

So, I don&#039;t think the way games treat death is an accident.  On the other hand, I don&#039;t think it means all that much - film and books run into the same limitations, after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An action game with the gruesome death animations is an interesting example, I think.  Visually, it mimics death as a state of existence &#8211; but that&#8217;s about as far as the similarity extends.  Game death is so different in all other ways that it&#8217;s not really clear to me whether it would be best understood as a shallow depiction of death or just not dealing with actual death at all.</p>
<p>Part of the disconnect is the fact that a game model, on its own, has little to no emotional value.  Making the player care about it is something that requires the narrative to show him why he should care &#8211; and most games don&#8217;t consider it worth it to do that for enemies.  Even in the cases where they do try, it&#8217;s simply not possible to do that for every enemy and NPC in a game with a medium or large scope due to lack of resources.  Finding a way to gain empathy procedurally through gameplay mechanics would help solve the resource problem, but a system of reward and punishment almost seems to be the antithesis of emotional engagement.</p>
<p>So, I don&#8217;t think the way games treat death is an accident.  On the other hand, I don&#8217;t think it means all that much &#8211; film and books run into the same limitations, after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Lewis Denby</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/a-thousand-deaths-is-a-statistic/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis Denby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=379#comment-24</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure I&#039;m *entirely* convinced by that, Jim.  Certainly, in the Tetris and Guitar Hero context, that&#039;s the case.  But what about - just off the top of my head - a third person action game with gruesome death animations?  This isn&#039;t merely a state of play; it has connotations much more rooted in the state of existence.  That&#039;s where it becomes more troublesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;m *entirely* convinced by that, Jim.  Certainly, in the Tetris and Guitar Hero context, that&#8217;s the case.  But what about &#8211; just off the top of my head &#8211; a third person action game with gruesome death animations?  This isn&#8217;t merely a state of play; it has connotations much more rooted in the state of existence.  That&#8217;s where it becomes more troublesome.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Rossignol</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/a-thousand-deaths-is-a-statistic/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Rossignol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 07:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=379#comment-23</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’ve heard players claim that they ‘died’ in Tetris or Guitar Hero&quot;

This. &quot;Death&quot; in games is just a condition under the rules of the game. The fact that it shares the same word as the deceased state of a living creature is almost irrelevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ve heard players claim that they ‘died’ in Tetris or Guitar Hero&#8221;</p>
<p>This. &#8220;Death&#8221; in games is just a condition under the rules of the game. The fact that it shares the same word as the deceased state of a living creature is almost irrelevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Lewis Denby</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/a-thousand-deaths-is-a-statistic/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis Denby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 21:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=379#comment-22</guid>
		<description>James G:

Funnily enough, that sort of crosses over into my &quot;other&quot; field.

I&#039;m all for shifting language.  It&#039;s totally natural.  But I don&#039;t know if what you&#039;re suggesting is really the case.  That said, you&#039;re right about &quot;dying on stage&quot;.  Maybe if games were calling *any* failure &quot;death&quot; it might ring truer, but as it is, I just think it&#039;s a shallow depiction.  The only place I think your argument really applies is in deathmatch, where I completely agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James G:</p>
<p>Funnily enough, that sort of crosses over into my &#8220;other&#8221; field.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for shifting language.  It&#8217;s totally natural.  But I don&#8217;t know if what you&#8217;re suggesting is really the case.  That said, you&#8217;re right about &#8220;dying on stage&#8221;.  Maybe if games were calling *any* failure &#8220;death&#8221; it might ring truer, but as it is, I just think it&#8217;s a shallow depiction.  The only place I think your argument really applies is in deathmatch, where I completely agree.</p>
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		<title>By: James G</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/a-thousand-deaths-is-a-statistic/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>James G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 20:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=379#comment-21</guid>
		<description>The abstraction of &#039;death&#039; in gaming means that the word has gained connotations far removed from those in the real world. You already discussed the way in which respawning in multi-player shooters treats death as a mechanic somewhat removed from its real life conterpart, indeed, if I&#039;m recalling it all correctly, this was pretty much enshrined in the Q3A manual. However, the concept of death in games stretches even further in games, such that it has become analogous with a number of abstract failures. I&#039;ve heard players claim that they &#039;died&#039; in Tetris or Guitar Hero, neither of which features anything in realation to real world death. (Although the phrase &#039;dying on stage&#039; is not one reserved exclusively for Guitar Hero)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The abstraction of &#8216;death&#8217; in gaming means that the word has gained connotations far removed from those in the real world. You already discussed the way in which respawning in multi-player shooters treats death as a mechanic somewhat removed from its real life conterpart, indeed, if I&#8217;m recalling it all correctly, this was pretty much enshrined in the Q3A manual. However, the concept of death in games stretches even further in games, such that it has become analogous with a number of abstract failures. I&#8217;ve heard players claim that they &#8216;died&#8217; in Tetris or Guitar Hero, neither of which features anything in realation to real world death. (Although the phrase &#8216;dying on stage&#8217; is not one reserved exclusively for Guitar Hero)</p>
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