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	<title>Comments on: Good Things About Bad Games: Kane &amp; Lynch</title>
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	<description>Resolution Magazine: Diverse commentary on video games. Previews, reviews, articles and more.</description>
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		<title>By: ALPHATT</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/good-things-about-bad-games-kane-lynch/#comment-33372</link>
		<dc:creator>ALPHATT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 20:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=1374#comment-33372</guid>
		<description>I think Kane &amp; Lynch dead men was supposed to be a really good game. Some of the ideas in there are good and quite frankly I enjoyed some of the later sections as far as dialog went as well as the fact that both endings were bad(Damned if you do,damned if you don&#039;t.. ;P). The game feels very unfinished, some textures look better than others, the voicework is kinda nice too. What I&#039;m trying to say is that eidos didn&#039;t want it delayed or they&#039;ve cut fundings. I loved the charachters myself, ths game could&#039;ve became a cult classic granted the gameplay wasn&#039;t so annoying. I don&#039;t really want to comment on the &#039;people getting turned off because of unlikeable charcachters&#039; thing although i didn&#039;t think they were unlikeable, maybe indivdually yes, but as a duo I loved the interplay, the word exchange in the middle of a heist or gun fight. The multiplayer was also an interesting concept and I felt that with more time and money it coul&#039;ve been expanded. K&amp;L2 is coming along and I&#039;m hyped about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Kane &amp; Lynch dead men was supposed to be a really good game. Some of the ideas in there are good and quite frankly I enjoyed some of the later sections as far as dialog went as well as the fact that both endings were bad(Damned if you do,damned if you don&#8217;t.. ;P). The game feels very unfinished, some textures look better than others, the voicework is kinda nice too. What I&#8217;m trying to say is that eidos didn&#8217;t want it delayed or they&#8217;ve cut fundings. I loved the charachters myself, ths game could&#8217;ve became a cult classic granted the gameplay wasn&#8217;t so annoying. I don&#8217;t really want to comment on the &#8216;people getting turned off because of unlikeable charcachters&#8217; thing although i didn&#8217;t think they were unlikeable, maybe indivdually yes, but as a duo I loved the interplay, the word exchange in the middle of a heist or gun fight. The multiplayer was also an interesting concept and I felt that with more time and money it coul&#8217;ve been expanded. K&amp;L2 is coming along and I&#8217;m hyped about it.</p>
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		<title>By: BigJonno</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/good-things-about-bad-games-kane-lynch/#comment-8149</link>
		<dc:creator>BigJonno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=1374#comment-8149</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve not played enough of Kane and Lynch to comment on the game itself, but I know that I&#039;d rather have control of a pair of villains than the guys from Army of Two, who are just arseholes.

I love the concept of the series. It&#039;s a failing of the industry that ideas are only lifted from successful games, while there are dozens of games with great concepts and poor execution that are begging to be picked over for the creamy goodness in the middle.

That said, there&#039;s also an annoying tendency for the wrong ideas to be stolen. How long was it before GTA&#039;s sandbox gameplay was copied, instead of the cars &#039;n&#039; guns &#039;n&#039; gangsters?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve not played enough of Kane and Lynch to comment on the game itself, but I know that I&#8217;d rather have control of a pair of villains than the guys from Army of Two, who are just arseholes.</p>
<p>I love the concept of the series. It&#8217;s a failing of the industry that ideas are only lifted from successful games, while there are dozens of games with great concepts and poor execution that are begging to be picked over for the creamy goodness in the middle.</p>
<p>That said, there&#8217;s also an annoying tendency for the wrong ideas to be stolen. How long was it before GTA&#8217;s sandbox gameplay was copied, instead of the cars &#8216;n&#8217; guns &#8216;n&#8217; gangsters?</p>
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		<title>By: Read This (22/06/09) &#171; Lewis Denby&#8217;s Fascinating Webthunks</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/good-things-about-bad-games-kane-lynch/#comment-7724</link>
		<dc:creator>Read This (22/06/09) &#171; Lewis Denby&#8217;s Fascinating Webthunks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=1374#comment-7724</guid>
		<description>[...] been wanting to do for a while. The bast! Looking in more depth at universally criticised games, he begins with the characters of Kane and Lynch. This is being linked around for a reason. Excellent stuff, and I look forward to seeing what he [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] been wanting to do for a while. The bast! Looking in more depth at universally criticised games, he begins with the characters of Kane and Lynch. This is being linked around for a reason. Excellent stuff, and I look forward to seeing what he [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hermit</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/good-things-about-bad-games-kane-lynch/#comment-7627</link>
		<dc:creator>Hermit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=1374#comment-7627</guid>
		<description>(Gah, no edit button)

Also, I&#039;m not sure I&#039;d agree with your suggestion that their relationship gets worse as the game goes on. In the first half, both characters have wildly different motives and loyalties - when Kane is prepared to listen to Renamoto&#039;s (Or is it Sakamoto&#039;s) plan for dealing with the7, Lynch&#039;s loyalties lie with them and he tells Kane not to do it. The fact that Renamoto&#039;s daughter is then shot is left ambiguous - was Lynch having a turn, or did he actually shoot her to stop Kane breaking off the deal with the7 (and by proxy ruin Lynch&#039;s chance for promotion, which he believed he was getting).

But once both are betrayed, their goals become the same - kill the7. There&#039;s still tension between the pair, but it becomes more about methods than outcomes. It&#039;s still conflict between them, but it isn&#039;t as pronounced or interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Gah, no edit button)</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d agree with your suggestion that their relationship gets worse as the game goes on. In the first half, both characters have wildly different motives and loyalties &#8211; when Kane is prepared to listen to Renamoto&#8217;s (Or is it Sakamoto&#8217;s) plan for dealing with the7, Lynch&#8217;s loyalties lie with them and he tells Kane not to do it. The fact that Renamoto&#8217;s daughter is then shot is left ambiguous &#8211; was Lynch having a turn, or did he actually shoot her to stop Kane breaking off the deal with the7 (and by proxy ruin Lynch&#8217;s chance for promotion, which he believed he was getting).</p>
<p>But once both are betrayed, their goals become the same &#8211; kill the7. There&#8217;s still tension between the pair, but it becomes more about methods than outcomes. It&#8217;s still conflict between them, but it isn&#8217;t as pronounced or interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Hermit</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/good-things-about-bad-games-kane-lynch/#comment-7625</link>
		<dc:creator>Hermit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=1374#comment-7625</guid>
		<description>Having played the game start to finish in co-op, I have to agree that people did overlook the strengths of the main characters. They&#039;re certainly both nasty individuals, but the interplay between them does help drive the game. 

I always thought it was a shame they put Kane out as the &quot;main character&quot;, with Lynch relegated to player 2 or computer status. In co-op, you actually remain in control of Lynch during his moments. So in the bank, for example, you see policemen streaming around the lobby, and your first natural instinct is to shoot them. When Lynch&#039;s medication kicks in shortly afterwards and you realise what you&#039;ve actually been shooting at, it&#039;s rather chilling. Not that K&amp;L was the first or only game to attempt this sort of thing, by any means.

Personally, though, the interest of the characters can&#039;t be sustained as the plot spins wildly out of control and unravels. The early half of the game felt like it was trying to emulate classic heist movies, but the second half veers off down normal shooter territory - the prison section is a bloodbath, and once the game switched to a full on civil war in Venezuela I found it hard to care. 

Kane&#039;s attempts to keep control of events in the first half of the game put him at odds with Lynch and keep the two-character dynamic interesting. That sense of everything falling apart that sections like the Bank or the kidnapping evoked are lost once the game goes all gung-ho, and that&#039;s a shame. It wasn&#039;t a good enough shooter, but with some tighter writing and a better second half, it could have at least been a good story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having played the game start to finish in co-op, I have to agree that people did overlook the strengths of the main characters. They&#8217;re certainly both nasty individuals, but the interplay between them does help drive the game. </p>
<p>I always thought it was a shame they put Kane out as the &#8220;main character&#8221;, with Lynch relegated to player 2 or computer status. In co-op, you actually remain in control of Lynch during his moments. So in the bank, for example, you see policemen streaming around the lobby, and your first natural instinct is to shoot them. When Lynch&#8217;s medication kicks in shortly afterwards and you realise what you&#8217;ve actually been shooting at, it&#8217;s rather chilling. Not that K&amp;L was the first or only game to attempt this sort of thing, by any means.</p>
<p>Personally, though, the interest of the characters can&#8217;t be sustained as the plot spins wildly out of control and unravels. The early half of the game felt like it was trying to emulate classic heist movies, but the second half veers off down normal shooter territory &#8211; the prison section is a bloodbath, and once the game switched to a full on civil war in Venezuela I found it hard to care. </p>
<p>Kane&#8217;s attempts to keep control of events in the first half of the game put him at odds with Lynch and keep the two-character dynamic interesting. That sense of everything falling apart that sections like the Bank or the kidnapping evoked are lost once the game goes all gung-ho, and that&#8217;s a shame. It wasn&#8217;t a good enough shooter, but with some tighter writing and a better second half, it could have at least been a good story.</p>
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		<title>By: Some New Work &#171; Creed&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/good-things-about-bad-games-kane-lynch/#comment-7398</link>
		<dc:creator>Some New Work &#171; Creed&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=1374#comment-7398</guid>
		<description>[...] Good Things About Bad Games: Kane &amp; Lynch: Kane and Lynch are how Lethal Weapon’s Riggs and Murtagh would’ve turned out if writer Shane Bla... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Good Things About Bad Games: Kane &amp; Lynch: Kane and Lynch are how Lethal Weapon’s Riggs and Murtagh would’ve turned out if writer Shane Bla&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ImperialCreed</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/good-things-about-bad-games-kane-lynch/#comment-7392</link>
		<dc:creator>ImperialCreed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=1374#comment-7392</guid>
		<description>Barry here.

@blug

Lewis beat me to the reply there, but I&#039;ve something to add. If what you say about most action games is true, then I&#039;d suggest that K&amp;L is one of the first games to openly acknowledge and play up to the fact that &quot;the whole enterprise is basically cruel, vicious and depraved&quot;. It&#039;s remarkably honest in its callousness, and that&#039;s something you rarely see. And that&#039;s the kind of stuff that interests me, so that&#039;s part of why I find these two characters fascinating.

You&#039;re not alone, as will be apparent in the piece, when it comes to being unable to enjoy the game at all because of the nature of our two protagonists. Their very nature handicaps your attempt to &quot;get into&quot; the game. And that&#039;s the potential problem with this kind of approach, as I point out. It&#039;s got serious risk attached to it. But I think that&#039;s why it&#039;s so brave and unusual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry here.</p>
<p>@blug</p>
<p>Lewis beat me to the reply there, but I&#8217;ve something to add. If what you say about most action games is true, then I&#8217;d suggest that K&amp;L is one of the first games to openly acknowledge and play up to the fact that &#8220;the whole enterprise is basically cruel, vicious and depraved&#8221;. It&#8217;s remarkably honest in its callousness, and that&#8217;s something you rarely see. And that&#8217;s the kind of stuff that interests me, so that&#8217;s part of why I find these two characters fascinating.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re not alone, as will be apparent in the piece, when it comes to being unable to enjoy the game at all because of the nature of our two protagonists. Their very nature handicaps your attempt to &#8220;get into&#8221; the game. And that&#8217;s the potential problem with this kind of approach, as I point out. It&#8217;s got serious risk attached to it. But I think that&#8217;s why it&#8217;s so brave and unusual.</p>
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		<title>By: Lewis Denby</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/good-things-about-bad-games-kane-lynch/#comment-7389</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis Denby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=1374#comment-7389</guid>
		<description>Your reading seems to me basically the same as Barry&#039;s.  They&#039;re absolutely horrible characters. They&#039;re impossible to like. And, for many, that&#039;s going to be a real turn-off.

I don&#039;t think that makes them uninteresting characters (I&#039;ve not played the game, so can&#039;t comment on that part) by default.  If anything, it&#039;s a fascinating decision for a developer to make. You&#039;re guiding these people through atrocious actions. That&#039;s pretty powerful stuff, potentially.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your reading seems to me basically the same as Barry&#8217;s.  They&#8217;re absolutely horrible characters. They&#8217;re impossible to like. And, for many, that&#8217;s going to be a real turn-off.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that makes them uninteresting characters (I&#8217;ve not played the game, so can&#8217;t comment on that part) by default.  If anything, it&#8217;s a fascinating decision for a developer to make. You&#8217;re guiding these people through atrocious actions. That&#8217;s pretty powerful stuff, potentially.</p>
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		<title>By: blug</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/good-things-about-bad-games-kane-lynch/#comment-7388</link>
		<dc:creator>blug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 16:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=1374#comment-7388</guid>
		<description>This is a good idea for a series and probably a useful one, but I am afraid I must disagree with your initial offering.  Kane and Lynch are certainly unlikable characters.  Unfortunately, I found them to be juvenilely, and perhaps worse, uninterestingly so.  The whole thing seemed like a clumsy attempt to create a franchise (damn that concept), and at &quot;maturity&quot; through amorality.

I&#039;d suggest another reading of Kane and Lynch.  In most action-y games, the player basically commits mass murder.  The whole enterprise is basically cruel, vicious, and depraved.  Sure, there&#039;s some sort of story that more or less justifies the whole thing, but that is subordinated to the gameplay experience.  Kane and Lynch made that process untenable for me; guiding the actions of these unpleasant fellows made me feel annoyed, if not angry.  I had no ability to choose an alternate path: the game did not include a &quot;just stop running around like an asshole murdering people&quot; ending.  I could not identify with them one bit.  I wanted them, and thus myself, to lose.  Thus the shadowy connections between the violence on-screen, the character, and myself were short-circuited.  Enjoyment became impossible.

Once again, I fear the problem is one of video game formalism.  Games are second-person.  It&#039;s what makes them potentially so powerful, but also the cause of Kane and Lynch&#039;s failure.  Would Lolita have been the same had it been a Choose Your Own Molesting?  I&#039;m not a hateful thug like Kane or Lynch, and I don&#039;t want to be forced to pretend I am.  That doesn&#039;t mean that there isn&#039;t a place a place for these characters in &quot;art&quot; - just that they don&#039;t make good video game protagonists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a good idea for a series and probably a useful one, but I am afraid I must disagree with your initial offering.  Kane and Lynch are certainly unlikable characters.  Unfortunately, I found them to be juvenilely, and perhaps worse, uninterestingly so.  The whole thing seemed like a clumsy attempt to create a franchise (damn that concept), and at &#8220;maturity&#8221; through amorality.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d suggest another reading of Kane and Lynch.  In most action-y games, the player basically commits mass murder.  The whole enterprise is basically cruel, vicious, and depraved.  Sure, there&#8217;s some sort of story that more or less justifies the whole thing, but that is subordinated to the gameplay experience.  Kane and Lynch made that process untenable for me; guiding the actions of these unpleasant fellows made me feel annoyed, if not angry.  I had no ability to choose an alternate path: the game did not include a &#8220;just stop running around like an asshole murdering people&#8221; ending.  I could not identify with them one bit.  I wanted them, and thus myself, to lose.  Thus the shadowy connections between the violence on-screen, the character, and myself were short-circuited.  Enjoyment became impossible.</p>
<p>Once again, I fear the problem is one of video game formalism.  Games are second-person.  It&#8217;s what makes them potentially so powerful, but also the cause of Kane and Lynch&#8217;s failure.  Would Lolita have been the same had it been a Choose Your Own Molesting?  I&#8217;m not a hateful thug like Kane or Lynch, and I don&#8217;t want to be forced to pretend I am.  That doesn&#8217;t mean that there isn&#8217;t a place a place for these characters in &#8220;art&#8221; &#8211; just that they don&#8217;t make good video game protagonists.</p>
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		<title>By: L.B. Jeffries</title>
		<link>http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/good-things-about-bad-games-kane-lynch/#comment-7386</link>
		<dc:creator>L.B. Jeffries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 13:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://resolution-magazine.co.uk/content/?p=1374#comment-7386</guid>
		<description>Maybe it&#039;s just that I&#039;d played Freedom Force and knew what Io&#039;s control scheme was trying to do, but I really don&#039;t see why people think it controls so badly. The only thing it&#039;s guilty of is not playing like Gears of War.

Otherwise, it&#039;s just a case of uneven gameplay quality. The bank robbery, club, and Tokyo Tower shoot-out are fantastic. There are a couple of unskippable cutscenes before boss fights and some other game design crimes. And as soon as you get to Venezuela, it turns into a mediocre action game. 

And the plot...you hit it dead on. There&#039;s no other game that has you playing characters as such absolutely awful people. It is definitely something new.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe it&#8217;s just that I&#8217;d played Freedom Force and knew what Io&#8217;s control scheme was trying to do, but I really don&#8217;t see why people think it controls so badly. The only thing it&#8217;s guilty of is not playing like Gears of War.</p>
<p>Otherwise, it&#8217;s just a case of uneven gameplay quality. The bank robbery, club, and Tokyo Tower shoot-out are fantastic. There are a couple of unskippable cutscenes before boss fights and some other game design crimes. And as soon as you get to Venezuela, it turns into a mediocre action game. </p>
<p>And the plot&#8230;you hit it dead on. There&#8217;s no other game that has you playing characters as such absolutely awful people. It is definitely something new.</p>
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